asics Shunichi Kakino talks about "GEL-EXTREME" and "EX89" which inherited it (Part 2)

In the second half, we had the opportunity to hear from Shunichi Kayano, who worked on the ASICS GEL-KAYANO series, about the behind-the-scenes stories of the production of the GEL-KAYANO.



---How does it feel to have the shoes you made transcend time and once again attract attention as a "sports style" item?
I don't think it was a mistake.
If the design is functional, it is likely to be passed down forever, but sports shoes are a bit plain after all.
Since it's a consumer product, it changes every year.
What caught my eye was the idea that while functionality and technology are important, they also need to have a trendy or emotional element to them, so I always attach a unique design theme to the shoes I design.
We've been designing by linking these things together, so from the customer's perspective, ASICS also had a unique story to tell in this era.
I think that's what people appreciate about it.
If you just said, "These shoes are functional and actually have good cushioning," it would end with, "That's true, isn't it...?" That's not interesting, is it?
I am extremely happy that in this day and age, the design story of a product that I was in charge of 20 or 30 years ago is being evaluated in this way, and I feel that it is an incredible reward for me as a designer and developer.
I look at them with deep emotion, and whenever I am approached about planning a reissue product, I am always happy to provide my services.
There were quite a few people in the company who said that this was a story that Kayano-san had added later, but that's not the case.
However, when I was working on design development at the time and said that I was creating things with stories like this, I was often told, "Are you stupid?"
Now, that is appreciated. Times have changed, and it makes me very happy that we can now talk about it naturally within the company.
At the time, people would ask me, "What are you thinking?" It was a very sports-oriented company.
It is now well-known that the Gel-Kayano trainer has a stag beetle motif, but in the past this was not well-received.
I'm very grateful for this in this day and age.

---Are there any new initiatives being undertaken in terms of functionality and design for the future of ASICS?

As a museum archive, I have been able to look at the company's history from the past to the present.
I'm particularly interested in design, technology, functionality and trends, and I think it's well known that there are currently three major ASICS brands. Each has a different worldview, and performance is still focused on functionality.
When you think of heritage, you think of Onitsuka Tiger.
I think the middle ground is sports style.
Each has its own worldview, so I think there are probably parameters for each as to whether functionality or design takes precedence.
For example, there is a sense of expectation as to how the balance of design and functionality of Onitsuka Tiger brand products will change, as well as the sports style and performance.
I think that when it comes to performance, we will continue to pursue functionality more and more.
I think design will be based on research and development that is close to human movement. In a sense, this is the core of the DNA that has been passed down since the days of Onitsuka Tiger, so it's only natural.
In fact, the sports style places great importance on appearance. I think that by adding functionality to it, it will continue to evolve. The word "function" sounds a bit stiff, so the word "usability" might be more appropriate.
We will likely continue to release reissued products in the future, and may even release original products.

However, one thing that can be said about ASICS manufacturing in general is that performance is always at the core.
However...if even the small emotional aspects that emerge from the functional design that prioritizes functionality can lead to satisfaction among the athletes and customers who use it, then I believe that this is an important point that should continue to be expressed as an eternally unchanging part of the product.

As a creator and custodian of history, I believe one of my roles now is to pass on the DNA of this relationship between functionality and design to the younger creators in the company.


---What do you think about products like GEL-KAYANO, which are loved by runners all over the world, now being accepted for purposes other than their original purpose of running, such as on the street and in fashion?

I have some complicated feelings about this.
The reason is that I was in charge of Kayano 1 to 13.
As I've said many times before, sports shoes are of course focused on functionality, but there is also an emotional aspect to them.
Uniqueness is important. I've been the producer and creative for all of the 1st through 13th series, so there's always a theme.
A praying mantis or a sports car.
However, since then, the focus has increasingly shifted to the functional aspects, so the theme has actually become diluted.
Functionality has eaten up the theme.
When it comes to product development, the target and the focused position have changed depending on the company's direction, so that's unavoidable.
I feel that the current Gel-Kayano shoes are becoming more like gear for street racers and running enthusiasts.


*GEL-KAYANO1 and GEL-KAYANO13

As for how it was from 1 to 13, I was able to produce them quite freely, and I was in charge of everything from planning to design and development, so
There are some companies that make products with the intention of making them usable by general health-conscious consumers.
Well, my way of thinking is a little different now than it was in the past. I'm not particularly sad about it, and I understand that we have to change with the times, but I have mixed feelings about it.
When comparing the original Kayano with the current Kayano, I think there are some difficult aspects, such as "They look completely different," and "Can you really wear this around town?"
But the functionality is great. I think it's really great. What is right and what is wrong, times and values ​​change too. That's something the company has to make management decisions on.

---We've heard that you're most attached to the design of the original KAYANO TRAINER among all the designs you've worked on, but are there any other designs that have left a particularly strong impression on you?

Well, if I had to pick one that left an impression on me, it would be Kayano's sixth one.
I'm in charge of volumes 1 through 13, and as you'd expect, when you stick with it from volume 1 onwards, sales continue to grow.
When that happens, management naturally takes action. In order to make things even better, we need to put effort into planning, design, and development.
In particular, functionality is something that needs to be carefully developed, so with Kayano's sixth model, our ASICS Institute of Sports Science is involved in the manufacturing process.
The sixth model of Gel-Kayano marks a shift from manufacturing that has traditionally focused on emotional usability to a more scientific functional design.
I was really conflicted about this. In research, the answer to 1 + 1 is always 2.
But I wanted 1 + 1 to be 3 or 4.
However, as a researcher, I cannot be convinced if the design does not express its functionality.
"Mr. Kayano, this is not a functional design," he said.
There was a bit of a battle and conflict in my mind.
So of all the products that I have fond memories of, the Gel Kayano Trainer is the one I have the most memories of, but the sixth Gel Kayano product in particular is one that I have a lot of attachment to, so I had a lot of trouble with it.
But it was because of this product that GEL-KAYANO exists today. It was definitely a turning point for us.
It was a product that set the course for functional, quantitative and scientific design, which led to the current Gel Kayano 29.

I have a very particular personality and I'm a fairly free-spirited person, so I've hidden text here and there in products 1 through 13 that people won't notice.
It's what we call personal playfulness.
For example, Kayano's number 12 has the number 12 hidden on the outsole. It's like a hidden Mickey.
That's why I make things with the intention of having fun.
For example, the 5th Kayano has been reissued, and it has the ASICS spiral mark on the midsole.



---Is that so?!

That's actually not a good idea. If I said that back then, the company would have said no, and it's still no now... lol. You can't actually see the outsole from the outside, so I secretly put the name of the material,
I tried putting numbers like 10, 12, 13, etc. It's actually not okay to make it your own.
If I was going to make it anyway, I thought it would be good to include that kind of personal playfulness without it being obvious.

---I've heard that since the 14th generation, younger designers and developers have taken over, but among them, is there a model that you like?

I've been moved to the global product strategy department, so I'm not involved in 14, but I am involved in 15 through 18.
The one I'm most attached to is number 18. This is the product that became the foundation of the sustainability initiative that ASICS is currently strongly promoting.
Together with Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), we have set a goal of reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 20 percent.
It's a product that took on new challenges, using plant-based plastic, simplifying the pattern, and giving the shape a little more thought.
It's more of a strategy than an appearance, so I would like to use something like this as a direction.
A major goal is the global environment. MIT has a quantitative method for how to reduce emissions by 20 percent, so we collaborated with MIT and released the model 18 to the public.
That's the Gel Kayano that I have a lot of attachment to.



---Do you have any thoughts or messages for young people who want to become shoe designers?

First of all, there are many different sports, so it's best to study people's feet and the movements of those sports and the people involved.
Instead of starting with your appearance, it's better to learn about your feet first.
The feet are made up of many different bones, so I feel it is necessary to study what bones are there, their shape and functions, and so on.

I would like to tell people that they will be taught how shoes are made once they join the company, but the first thing they should do is learn to love feet and sports.
I'm just saying this because I wasn't doing enough.

I think it's best to love sports. To do that, it's important to really look at and understand the movements of athletes' legs and bodies.
That's where it comes from.
It's fine because you learn how to draw and express things in pictures at art universities, art colleges, and vocational schools.
If you want to be a designer at a sports manufacturer, you'll definitely need to study feet thoroughly.
And then there's the players' opinions.
It's all about listening to the players' opinions and using them to improve and evolve.
Very important hints are hidden in these places, so just study! That's it.

Additionally, if the sports shoes that I was in charge of were running shoes, for example, I would always put my body on the line and test them on.
I'm not going to participate in any tournaments though.
I would go jogging, and when I was in charge of basketball shoes...oh, I didn't play basketball. I wasn't very good at it...lol
There was a time when I was in charge of tennis shoes, so I played tennis, and the same was true for baseball cleats. Whenever I was in charge of sports shoes, I always started by learning about the sport.
You have to use yourself as a guinea pig and figure out what's wrong with you.
Unless I move around and play sports and realize the problems with the sports shoes I'm currently using, I won't be able to create a product that I'm satisfied with. This is a very important point.


---There are many things you can't know until you try it.
Just one last question: What do shoes mean to you, Kayano-san?

I guess you could call it a "vessel" of self-expression. A vessel that can express one's hobbies, playfulness, and roots.
I believe that what I learned at university, as well as my knowledge and experience, can be useful in industrial products.
Ever since I was a child, I've always admired strong and fast things, and I've always liked mechanical things.

To put it in a metaphor, it's like a super alloy toy.
I still love robots with their tough appearances and the ability to combine and transform. Surprisingly, it's quite similar to the concept of sports shoes, so I guess it was a good match.
From the customer's perspective, if it's not cool, they don't want to buy it, and if it doesn't have a sense of speed and lots of functions, they don't want it. I think that's what I've been doing as a hobby, and I've been able to turn it into a practical profit.

I felt that sports shoes were a vessel that was easy to express, and I felt that we had something in common.

Oh, and it was also an environment where it was easy to incorporate a sense of fun into the design... I guess that was also a factor. At the time, most of the employees were sportsmen, so they weren't too picky about the design. Haha, I was busy, but I enjoyed my work to a certain extent.

It's a vessel that allows for self-expression...!



Thank you, Kayano-san, for your valuable story!!
I think it was an interview where we got to hear a lot of history.
I'm looking forward to future Asics products!


Toshikazu Kayano
He was the first designer of the ASICS running shoe "GEL-KAYANO TRAINER," released in 1993.